House votes to outlaw CIA waterboarding
WASHINGTON
(Reuters)
Defying a White House veto threat, the U.S. House of Representatives voted on Thursday to outlaw harsh interrogation methods, such as simulated drowning, that the CIA has used against suspected terrorists.
The Democratic-led House of Representatives voted on Thursday to outlaw harsh interrogation methods, such as simulated drowning, that the CIA has used against suspected terrorists.
On a 222-199 vote, the House approved a measure to require intelligence agents to comply with the Army Field Manual, which meets the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of war prisoners and prohibits torture.
Many countries, U.S. lawmakers and human rights groups have accused the United States of torturing terror suspects since the September 11 attacks.
President George W. Bush says the United States does not torture, but the administration will not disclose what interrogation methods it has approved for the CIA.
In threatening to veto the House-passed measure, which now awaits Senate action, the White House argued it would prevent the United States from conducting “lawful interrogations of senior al Qaeda terrorists.”
House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer countered that the current administration had blurred the line “between legitimate, sanctioned interrogation tactics and torture.”
“There is no doubt our international reputation has suffered and been stained as a result,” Hoyer told colleagues.
Backers of harsh interrogation say it is needed to pry vital information out of enemy combatants. But critics say torture is inhumane and such information is often unreliable.
The CIA has told lawmakers they stopped waterboarding a few years ago, aides say.
The overall intelligence authorization bill that contains the interrogation provision faces another fight in the closely-divided, Democratic-led Senate.
The Army Field Manual provides 19 approved interrogation methods. They include isolating prisoners, allowing American interrogators to pose as representing another country and the “good-cop, bad-cop” interviewing technique.
It prohibits eight methods, including waterboarding.
Wild Thing’s comment……..
1) it worked and it saved lives
2) it’s been used rarely
3) Al qeada could give a crap about humane treatment
4) using it will not encourage other countries to torture our soldiers, because they already have and would have anyway.
5) And the Geneva Convention does not cover terrorists, it covers prisoners of war who are wearing the uniform of their country when captured
Any moral argument against it is countered by a moral argument against sitting there and not doing all one could to to prevent the deaths of large numbers of Americans. The bottom line is – would you rather have blood on your hands because you failed to take action known to elicit the info. to save lives.
I can think of 50 ways right off the bat that would be torture. And I wouldn’t be opposed to outright torture of these Isamonuts.
I am tired of tour country pandering to terrorists. Our American government officials continue to work against the safety of the public. They continue to support the activities of sworn murderers and our enemies who are devoted to killing us. They continue to kiss our enemies asses. They continue to work to destroy the republic.
Our islamic jihadist enemies certainly don’t limit themselves from employing any and every kind of torture imaginable. They’re laughing their butts off right now over this one.
When are these politicians going to condemn the treatment our soldiers and citizens receive from Al Queda.
IMO the Dems and rino’s already have blood on their hands. How many soldiers have died because the enemy was emboldened by the actions of the Dems and their kiss ups.
The House should stay out of the business of our Warriors!
No more surf’s up for Ahab? Darn! Al-Qaeda slices the throats and beheads infidels and waterboarding is cruel?
“There is no doubt our international reputation has suffered and been stained as a result,” Hoyer told colleagues.
And the democrats know all about things that can be ‘stained’.
Well, if you can believe his bio, Hoyer has never served in the military so he wouldn’t have a clue about the rules of engagement or interrogation from a military perspective. Just another example of “arm chair” second guessing that caused Viet Nam to be such a screwed up mess. And does he really think it matters what the rest of the world thinks about us? It is pretty evident that they don’t give a damn about the United States until they need money or some other kind of help and then it’s a whole different story. And could we get a clear definition of torture? What’s the difference between humane and inhumane torture? Isn’t it still torture? And what one person considers torture, another doesn’t!!! Holy Crap…………..enough with politcal correctness!!!!
Enough of the UN bull!!!!
I look at the Liberals and all I can think of
is Tar and Feathers…
Most of Congress knows nothing about war. We are fighting a guerilla war and there are no rules. What has happened to our guys who have been captured is horrendous. Congress should spend their time legislating and applying restrictions on themselves. They should also be doing internal investigations and hearings for treason by their own members like Murtha and Pelosi.
I say make the Gitmo prisoners listen to Congressional speeches 24 hrs a day.
This issue is just one skirmish in the battle for a real, hard, objective public morality in American life rather than the limp+ narcissistic “code” of the left.
One of the side effects of liberalism is this: when people lack the difficult virtues, they look for the easy ones. I’ve never known a liberal or a secularist (conservatives, too) whose moral systems weren’t sloppy and soft and yet sanctimonious and vaguely superior to everyone else’s.
Arguing with these people is useless because the moral involved is never the issue. The issue is how they feel about possessing the moral. You can’t reason a person out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.
Being “anti-war” and “anti-torture” and
“choice” are three of the instant-piety virtues. The second one isn’t about “torture”, it’s about protecting the collective, protecting the greater number by doing the objectionable.
The irony is that Progressivism and all its demented children – liberalism, leftism, etc.- is exactly about the importance of the collective over the individual. But consistency requires guts and spine and brains…not in great supply on The Left.
It’s revealing that Congress voted to outlaw CIA waterboarding of terrorists but did nothing about the waterboarding used by the military on it’s own patriotic troops to train them for what to expect from these same enemies who regularly use mutilation and fatal torture of their captives.
Hmmmmmm! Congress cares more about the savage terrorist bastards than it does about loyal and dedicated Americans in military service protecting their sorry asses.
Les, good point. Another way to look at it is that what’s called torture at Gitmo is called Boot Camp by Marines.
A common thread from the left is Waterboarding may not be real torture but if we do use it, we will really piss them off. Whose them ?
Like before the Gulf war, on donohue, he had one lib speaker after another say there will be hundred of thousands of casualties, they will need 10,000 body bags, our Tanks won’t work in all that sand and heat and on and on, and their bottom line was if we insist on doing this we will the really make them mad. Who the hell are these people we are supposed to be so deathly afraid of ? These moslems who wear black hoods so they can’t be identified. this is our enemy ?
They are already trying to kill us, what else can they do to us. The Left really believe if we are nice to them they will leave us alone.
We did little to them for 10 years before 9-11 but they kept trying to kill us. When are these people going to wake up. Hillary, Obama or Edwards is going to fix this …This is the fantasy of the left. That head in the sand fantasy will be our undoing.
“… and we took ~UF93~ DOWN into the Shanksville PA countryside, and protected the U.S. Capitol from being hit…. FOR THIS?!” – Todd Beamer and the patriots of ~UF93~ six years after 9-11-01… in heaven!
Darth, yes apparently to them waterboarding is worse then being beheaded or at least just as bad. sheesh
Mark, they sure do and they have done the staining not our troops.
John……”It is pretty evident that they don’t give a damn about the United States until they need money or some other kind of help and then it’s a whole different story.”……
AMEN I agree, only when they beg and need us then they turn around and hate us afterward.
Jack, it is all just so awful how they demand to run our military. grrrrrrrrrr
Tincan,yes, someone sure does need to set them straight and not in a gentle way either.
Tom I agree so much!!
“Congress should spend their time legislating and applying restrictions on themselves.”
Rhod, Yessss!! Demented children is certainly what they are.
Les yes that is something they don’t bring up. Our troops go through training like you said.
Bob, true, they do go through training that includes this kind of thing.
Mark, yes I could care less about offending the ” them” and who is it like you said.
drstrangeloveb52isok, yes here we had citizens being heroes and try with their life on the line to keep planes from doing more damage on 9-11 and our politicians can’t take a stand for America. grrrrrr
I disagree with this law.
Our CIA should not be required to abide by the Army basic field manual; they are not soldiers. They do not get to wear the Army blues or the Class A’s.
Furthermore, we should not ask how they do their jobs on foreign soil. If they do wrong, then let the foreign authorities punish them.