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July 28, 2009
President Hamid Karzai Wants New ROE for US Troops
Karzai: Afghans want rules for troops changed
KABUL
President Hamid Karzai said Monday he wants new rules governing the conduct of U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan and would be willing to talk with Taliban leaders who publicly renounce violence and endorse peace.
But Karzai, acknowledging shaky relations with his international partners in the war on terror, told The Associated Press in an interview that he was not prepared at this time to discuss the key Taliban demand - a timetable for the withdrawal of all foreign troops.
Karzai said the presence of U.S. and international forces was in the Afghan national interest but should be "based on a new contract" that would minimize civilian casualties, limit searches of private homes and restrict detaining Afghans indefinitely without charge.
He also said he wants the U.S.-run prison at Bagram Air Base, where about 600 Afghans are held, re-evaluated and inmates released unless there is evidence linking them to terrorist affiliation. He said arrests are turning ordinary Afghans against U.S. and NATO forces.
Karzai has promised to pursue those demands for changes in the relationship with foreign forces if he wins a second term in the Aug. 20 presidential election. He is considered the leading contender in the 39-candidate field, though he would be forced into a runoff if he fails to win a majority of votes in the first round.
"The Afghan people still want a fundamentally strong relation with the United States," Karzai said. "The Afghan people want a strategic partnership with America" based on fighting Islamic extremism.
But he added that the partnership must ensure "that the partners are not losing their lives, their property, their dignity as a consequence of that partnership."
The 91,000 international troops based in Afghanistan include about 65,000 under NATO's International Security Assistance Force, or ISAF. The rest are part of a U.S.-led coalition involved in counterterrorism and training Afghan forces. Both groups operate under different rules, which are kept secret for operational security reasons.
It is widely assumed, however, that the U.S.-led counter-terror command enjoys broader powers to search homes and detain people indefinitely if they are suspected of posing a security threat.
Last month, the new U.S. and NATO commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, issued new orders saying troops may attack insurgents hiding in Afghan houses only if international forces are in imminent danger. The measures were put into effect to quell a storm of criticism from Karzai's government about civilian casualties, which help fuel the Taliban insurgency.
During his interview, Karzai suggested those measures may not be enough to convince most Afghans to accept a long-term international role, which he said was in the interest of the Afghan people.
Karzai said no Afghan mother would weep over a son killed or wounded in the war "but that Afghan mother would very much want her other son, her husband or her daughter to be safe in their homes, to be safe in their communities, not to be bombed, not to be arrested, not to have their homes broken into at night with their front gate blown up by dynamite."
Karzai also said he wanted a dialogue with Taliban members not affiliated with al-Qaida or "in the grips of foreign intelligence agencies" in order to "reintegrate" them into Afghan society. He said those Taliban members must first repent "and announce that publicly."
He did not specify any foreign intelligence agency, but Afghan officials have in the past accused Pakistan of backing the Taliban, which Pakistan denies.
But Karzai also made clear he was not prepared to call for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign forces, which some key Taliban figures have demanded before they will enter peace talks.
Karzai acknowledged strong differences over the years with the NATO and U.S.-led forces "but I also know and the Afghan people also know that the presence of international troops in Afghanistan is bringing stability to Afghanistan."
"I would advise the Taliban not to ask for the exit of international forces in Afghanistan because that is not in the interest of the Afghan people," he said.
Instead, both sides should work toward a relationship in which foreign troops show greater sensitivity to Afghan culture and the Afghans display "better management of governmental affairs."
Karzai has come under criticism for embracing some of Afghanistan's most notorious warlords, including his vice presidential running mate Mohammad Qasim Fahim, and his defense adviser, Gen. Rashid Dostum, who has been accused of killing hundreds of Taliban prisoners in 2001.
Karzai defended those ties, saying many of those now branded as warlords had received "million and millions of dollars" from the United States for their help in fighting the Taliban in the 2001 U.S.-led invasion.
Wild Thing's comment........
What an idiot Karzai is! If we pulled our troops from Afghanistan, his life would not be worth a plug nickel.
Between this guy and the comment Obama made last week that didn't care about a victory in Afghanistan OMG!
What Obama and his like need to realise, is that the object of war, as Patton put it. “Is to kill the other guy before he can kill you" . As for the Afghan president, he should think long and hard about what position he would be in if we just decided to cut our losses and leave. He’d be so far up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle. You’d hear him begging us to stay on the moon. But none of this will happen because it means do to it right and keep our troops from being killed means we have to do what our troops do best and the Obamessiah can’t have that now can he.
.
....Thank you Jack for sending this to me.
United States Army
1965-1971
Army Combat Engineers
Quang Tri & Chu Lai '68 -'69
67-69
Jack's blog is Conservative Insurgent
Posted by Wild Thing at July 28, 2009 05:48 AM
Comments
Karzai is just trying to pander to his public due to the elections (political posturing) , but I'd HOPE he doesn't start pushing too hard on this because the Taliban will DEFINITELY use it to kill more of our guys, AND use EVEN MORE civilians as human shields. Chrissie, my dad just sent this to me and I thought you and others might like it if you haven't seen it already:
"INCOMING FIRE HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY"
Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch, is part drill
Instructor, and part stand up comic. Here are a few of his
observations On tactics, firearms, self defense and life as we
know it in the Civilized world.
"The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was
Going to a fight....I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an
atomic Bomb instead."
"The two most important rules in a gunfight are: always cheat
and always win."
"Every time I teach a class, I discover I don't know something."
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get
Killed with my own
gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, Cause it's
going to be empty."
"If you're not shootin', you should be loadin'. If you're not
Loadin, you should be movin', if you're not movin', someone's gonna
cut Your head off and put it on a stick...."
"When you reload in low light encounters, don't put your
Flashlight
in your back pocket.. If you light yourself up, you'll look like an
angel or the tooth fairy...and you're gonna be one of 'em pretty
Soon."
"Do something. It may be wrong, but do something."
"Nothing adds a little class to a sniper course like a babe in a
Ghilliesuit."
"Shoot what's available, as long as it's available, until
Something
else becomes available."
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's
Ridiculous.. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be
paranoid For."
"Don't shoot fast, shoot good."
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think Will
work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's
Head is pretty much the universal language."
"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long
You live depends on how well you do it."
"You cannot save the planet. You may be able to save
yourself And
your family."
"Thunder Ranch will be here as long as you'll have us or until
someone makes us go away and either way it will be exciting."
More Excellent Gun
Wisdom....... The purpose of fighting is to Win. There is no
possible victory in defense. The sword is more Important than the
shield, and skill is more important than either. The
Final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to Fight,
he'll just kill you.
2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.
4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers.
The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying
and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded,
'Because they don't make a 46.'
6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous
Regularity.
7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady
Commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your
Pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No ma'am. If
I were expecting
Trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'
8. Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to
Use it!
'The true
Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but
because He loves what is behind him.' - G. K. Chesterton
A people that values its privileges above its principles will Soon
lose both. DDE
'Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who Do not.' - Thomas Jefferson
If you believe in the 2nd Amendment, please forward.
.
Posted by: pontiff alex at July 28, 2009 09:37 AM
Change the ROE's to what they can't get much weaker than what they are. Why are we fucking around with these dickweeds. Karzai and obama should bu bunkies.
If Karzai is so concerned about his country why are we fighting his battle. He's a POS like obama. For all the good these ROE's are we should send in the NYPD instead.
Posted by: Mark at July 28, 2009 11:36 AM
Karzai was a 'dickweasel' from the beginning. One lesson I learned at roadside halts, in the rear of course, was to pick out that bully who was thumping the other clamoring pre communists, hire him to keep the throng away from planting mines, satchels and grenades in and on your vehicle, and pay the little bastard well, he's your buddy for the moment.
"Diplomats" always seem to pick the floating political turds to do their bidding then lament their lack of loyalty. Fidel Castro, Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein, Vladimir Putin, all former or current 'friends' of the nation, it takes a crooked sumbitch to recognize and exploit that trait in another, it they are outspoken and honest, calling that floating POS what it is, they end up getting blackballed like John Bolton and replaced with the likes of Hillary the Marxist.
My bone of contention is we are getting ours and our allies kids killed by both sides of these spineless sons of bitches.
Posted by: Jack at July 28, 2009 12:22 PM
For the umpteenth time WT, my first thoughts were mirrored by your comments.
American blood is being shed to keep Karzai in power. Now he joins President obama in calling for stricter ROEs.
Nobody knows what will eventually happen in Pakistan. What happens there will highly effect the outcome of Afghanistan. As long as the Taliban have refuge in Pakistan, they can conduct an endless war in A-Stan, a la North Vietnam with Laos and Cambodia.
Our forces have to be allowed to kick ass hard and promote a relationship through humanitarian projects in A-Stan. In a stretch of the meaning it will be like good cop, bad cop. If we just hunker down and wait for the Taliban and have a large sea of no-fire zones the Taliban will fight the style of warfare profitable to them.
We have to go out and aggressively seek the enemy. We have to aggessively collect intel. We have to use the tribal factions against the Taliban as the Special Forces did so successfully early on. When we locate the Taliban we need to "pile on" with firepower and superior troops .
We have the units to fight this war. From Special Ops, to air cavalry, artillery, aviation. Everything except naval gunfire. (I know I'm talking Army stuff here guys but I include the Marines).
We came damn close in Gulf War Uno to actually winning a war for the first time since WWII. President Bush 41 and Colin Powell stopped our forces just short of a wipeout of the enemy. Other than that, the damned politicians have negotiated, ROE'd, prohibited, truced, pulled out of or just stopped our troops from winning. Wars are for winning. It is not a game and should not be used on a limited scale as a tool for political puposes. America and Israel (should) both have learned this.
The writing seems to be on the wall now. obama is going to be the "typical" politician and play games with our involvements in both Iraq and A-Stan. It doesn't look good from the winning standpoint. Also, I worry a lot about obama's military appointments. It is always easy to find career first generals who will do the politicians' bidding at the expese of the troops and the mission.
Posted by: TomR at July 28, 2009 02:06 PM
OK I'm really getting sick of this PC "Don't kill civilians" bullsh*t. I'm not even in the mood for "Bringing the fight to them" either. That risks our guys getting killed. It's time to start using the good stuff like the LGM-30G "Minuteman III" and the UGM-133 "Trident II"; and I really don't give a rat's a** if there are 60 Million civilian casualties and the Whole of Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia are predominantly sheets of green glass, they started it.
Posted by: JohnE PFC U.S. Army at July 28, 2009 05:33 PM
Alex, haha thnaks for that.
Mark,Ditto all of that. He has insulted
everyone of our troops and he could
care less about our loss we have there.
Jack, that was great thank you.
Tom, big smile thank you so much. I agree
so much with what you said. I am in awe
how our troops do what they do and
when not held back oh my gosh nothing
can stop them.
JohnE PFC U.S. Army , that would be
fantastic.
Posted by: Wild Thing at July 29, 2009 12:21 AM
Karzai is trying to initiate the same set of rules that Malaki has done inside Iraq. If Obama caves in on this issue your soldiers (and ours) might as well pack up their bags & delcare defeat! You cannot fight like this with one hand tied behind your back....to make matters worse that British fool David Milliband is proposing to chat with 'moderate' Taliban forces to make a deal. Like listen up David.....there is NO such thing as an effing moderate Taliban. These pompous arrogant arseholes haven't a damned clue!
Posted by: Lynette in Australia at July 29, 2009 12:31 AM
