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December 07, 2008
It Mattered In 1787
Will Supremes review citizenship arguments?
Friday
December 5th
With protesters gathering and praying on the front steps, the U.S. Supreme Court met in conference today to discuss whether or not to hear a case challenging Barack Obama's eligibility to be president.
"Obama was born a dual citizen," protester Roger Bredow told the Washington, D.C., local events blog, DCist. "British, and a citizen of the United States, at birth."
According to Bredow – and the case the Supreme Court reviewed today – dual citizenship makes Obama ineligible to take the oath of office.
Where's the proof Barack Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the "natural-born American" clause in the Constitution?
The case of Leo C. Donofrio v. New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells, which claims Obama does not meet the Constitution's Article 2, Section 1 "natural-born citizen" requirement for president, was initially denied a hearing by Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter, but Justice Clarence Thomas agreed to bring it back for review today.
In order to go forward in the process, the case needs four of the Supreme Court's nine justices to approve a full hearing.
Unlike many of the lawsuits regarding Obama's "natural-born citizen" status, the Donofrio case makes no allegation that Obama was born on foreign soil. Instead, Donofrio contends Obama was a British citizen at birth, because of citizenship in a British colony, Kenya.
"Don't be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues," Donofrio writes on his Natural Born Citizen blog. "They are irrelevant to Senator Obama's ineligibility to be president. Since Barack Obama's father was a citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama's birth, then Senator Obama was a British citizen 'at birth.'"
Obama's Fight the Smears website confirms that Donofrio is correct about the Democrat's citizenship at birth, but says his dual citizenship with Britain expired, leaving him with only American citizenship.
Donfrio, however, contends that the Constitution was written in such a way to exclude dual citizens like Obama.
"The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth," Donofrio writes, "were also British citizens, and that's why the Framers declared that, while they were citizens of the United States, they themselves were not 'natural born citizens.'"
"Therefore," Donofrio summarizes, "even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on U.S. soil, he still wouldn't be eligible to be president."
The biggest question is why Obama, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists as his campaign has stated, simply hasn't ordered it made available to settle the rumors.
The governor's office in Hawaii said there is a valid certificate but rejected requests for access and left ambiguous its origin: Does the certificate on file with the Department of Health indicate a Hawaii birth or was it generated after the Obama family registered a Kenyan birth in Hawaii?
You can go HERE for the rest of the article
-- snipet from end of article --
The case also raises the circumstances of Obama's time during his youth in Indonesia, where he was listed as having Indonesian citizenship. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, raising the possibility of Obama's mother having given up his U.S. citizenship.
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Now this is something very important to do with this. I know I have posted something similar in other posts but this states it so clearly. -- Wild Thing
The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth, were also British Citizens and that's why the Framers declared that, while they were Citizens of the United States, they themselves were not "natural born Citizens". Hence their inclusion of the grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President;
The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didn't want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country. The Framers were comfortable making an exception for themselves. They did, after all, create the Constitution. But they were not comfortable with the possibility of future generations of Presidents being born under the jurisdiction of Foreign Powers, especially Great Britain and its monarchy, who the Framers and Colonists fought so hard in the American Revolution to be free of.
The Framers declared themselves not eligible to be President as "natural born Citizens", so they wrote the grandfather clause in for the limited exception of allowing themselves to be eligible to the Presidency in the early formative years of our infant nation.
But nobody alive today can claim eligibility to be President under the grandfather clause since nobody alive today was a citizen of the US at the time the Constitution was adopted.
The Framers distinguished between "natural born Citizens" and all other "Citizens". And that's why it's important to note the 14th Amendment only confers the title of "Citizen", not "natural born Citizen". The Framers were Citizens, but they weren't natural born Citizens. They put the stigma of not being natural born Citizens on themselves in the Constitution and they are the ones who wrote the Document.
Since the the Framers didn't consider themselves to have been "natural born Citizens" due to their having been subject to British jurisdiction at their birth, then Senator Obama, having also been subject to British jurisdiction at the time of his birth, also cannot be considered a "natural born Citizen" of the United States.
Barack Obama's official web site, Fight The Smears, admits he was a British Citizen at birth. At the very bottom of the section of his web site that shows an alleged official Certification Of Live Birth, the web site lists the following information and link thereto:
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”
That is a direct admission Barack Obama was a British citizen "at birth".
Wild Thing's comment.......
The grandfather clause in the Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787, and to me it still applies.
Something to add regarding ignoring the Constitution. If it means nothing in regards to a person running for President, then nothing else in the Constitution means anything either.
Obama's followers need to realize this and the rest that support Obama by their not wanting this to be solved.
Because if our Constitution is NOT respected and followed on this item alone, then also it means income tax amendment isn't relevant and the anti-slavery amendment isn't valid and the list goes on and on.........
The Constitution of the United Stated trumps all else.
Clarence Thomas’s view was that even though Souter rejected Donofrio vs. Wells, he said there’s a constitutional issue at stake. He risked the ire of his colleague. So that signals he thinks it’s important, which it is.
....Thank you Mark for sendingi these two articles to me.
Posted by Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 06:47 AM
Comments
The choice facing the Supreme Court boils down to civil unrest to protect the Constitution or civil war to proceed to ‘inaugurate’ a non-”natural born citizen”.
Posted by: Ted at December 7, 2008 08:49 AM
To liberals the Constitution is a menu. They pick and choose the parts of it that suit them and reject parts that curtail their agenda.
Obama knows exactly what his citizenship status is. The fact that he will not release his birth certificate is an indication that he is not going to be honest with the citizens of America.
This is an immediate pressing issue. I have no faith that the SCOTUS will actually hear this case.
Posted by: TomR at December 7, 2008 10:59 AM
The dums only use the Constitution when it fits their needs. They probably wouldn't care if Obamammy was from Mars and had purple and pink polka dots all over him and a tail to swing from!
If my father had been born in let's say, Ireland, I would not be eligible to be president, even if I were born here, because Ireland is under British Rule--common sense, here. The media pushed a puppet in our faces and now the Supreme Court will not do anything on it to keep the peace. But now every non-natural born citizen will want to run as well. Mark my words, this has turned the Presidency into a joke.
Posted by: Lynn at December 7, 2008 02:33 PM
I have been following and looking into this since Feb. 14, of this yr.
If Obama defies the Supreme Court and he is not forced to comply with the Courts orders then The Constitution of this Republic means nothing and is out the window. If that happens our rights under the Constitution and all the amendments under the Bill of Rights come into question and possibly mean naught. Remember Obama has already stated that he does not believe The Constitution is a living document that can be applied to our times.
A lesson I learned in 30 years in Law Enforcement is that; we as reasonable and prudent people know that when there is nothing to hide people turn over what ever is in question. Obama has had all the opportunity in the world to turn over his vault copy of his Birth Certificate, but has not. So my question is why. It is our right as a people to know beyond a reasonable doubt if he is a natural born citizen.
At this point in time this is not about whether we like Obama or not, it is about a point of Constitutional Law and if and how the law will be enforced which may affect this country and our children for years to come.
Unfortunately I don’t see anyone with the amount of stones to take on all the lib’s who have backed him, the Supreme Court included………. I think we are going to have to live with him.
We are going to regret as a nation not knowing anything about this man.
Posted by: John 5 (VN69/70) at December 7, 2008 02:47 PM
The Supreme Court of the United States has a choice to make. Deal with this issue now or deal with it later, but deal with it they will. If they don't deal with it now then challenges will continue and circumstances will occur that they will be forced to deal with it later. Should a 'President" Barack Obama appoint and get approved one or more Supreme Court justices then they would be forced to recuse themselves as being "tainted fruit" of the case in question.
The fact that elite Barack Obama will not produce a valid birth certificate for review as tens of millions of non-elite Americans do for their passports, drivers licenses, and security clearances says more about his character and how he plays with others then anything else. He either is a natural born citizen with a valid birth certificate and is just screwing with the people or he isn't a natural born citizen and is committing fraud and screwing with the people.
It is obvious how little Barack Obama thinks of the American people as he screws us either way for the next four years.
Posted by: Les at December 7, 2008 04:27 PM
Ted, excellent way to put it thank you.
For me it would be an easy decision to make if I was a Judge, just follow what the Constitution says. But we never know what these Judges will think or do. They have surprised me but they have also ticked me off. Not all, there are good ones like Clarence Thomas.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 04:43 PM
Tom, good comparison, that is exactly what they do. They pick and take from it what they want and then want to throw the rest away.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 04:49 PM
Great FYI Wild Thing. I go to David Barton's archives a lot (historical research),for our forfathers were brilliant: www.wallbuilders.com and www.wallbuilderslive.com
Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at December 7, 2008 04:53 PM
Lynn, LOL hahahahahaha
"They probably wouldn't care if Obamammy was from Mars and had purple and pink polka dots all over him and a tail to swing from!"
I agree Lynn, if they don't follow our Constitution the office of the President will be a joke. And that is so dangerous especially in the kind of world we live in today.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 04:53 PM
John 5 (VN69/70), thank you for your input and looking at it from someone that has been in Law Enforcement too means a lot. Yes see that is the thing, Obama keeps spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight this so it only makes him come off as totally guilty and with something to hide. Something so easy to prove.
Thanks again.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 04:59 PM
Les, I think so too, that is the bottom line of dealing with this. Now or later because it is not going to go away by ignoring it or putting it off for another day.
And this too is so true......
"It is obvious how little Barack Obama thinks of the American people as he screws us either way for the next four years."
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 05:03 PM
Darth, those oare realy good links, I agree.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 05:08 PM
Nobody wants to acknowledge it but this is the most important issue of our time. Congress has usurped the constitution to the point it has no teeth left. This would be the final nail in its coffin. I would be willing to bet that most of the democrats are well aware that obama is not a natural born citizen. By not looking at it would be a fatal error for our country.
This is a must for the Supreme Court to look into this if we are to survive as a country under our Constitution.
Posted by: Mark at December 7, 2008 05:25 PM
Mark, I agree, it would be the final nail in it's coffin, and I really believe that every single one of those in Congress knows about this and is wishing it would go away.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 7, 2008 05:49 PM
OK folks, Team Obama and its allied MSM have finally responded to Leo Donofrio's Supreme Court position that Obama is not an Article II "natural born citizen" -- proceeding from phase 1 (ignore) to phase 2 (ridicule) now to phase 3 (respond with legal points) ... on the way to phase 4 (acceptance).
Team Obama's legal argument, from OpEdNews -- http://www.opednews.com/articles/Is-Barack-Obama-Natural-Bo-by-Hargrove-081207-817.html -- in a nutshell is as follows:
The Framers elected not to define "natural born citizen," except by exempting themselves, which self exemption "could be due the fact that they were not born in the United States without regard to whether or not they had been subject to British jurisdiction," and the Framers' lack of concern about dual citizenship or loyalties is shown by their only requiring Presidents to have been residents in the United States for 14 years -- meaning an eligible candidate born in the United States still could have resided under the jurisdiction of another country for 21 years or more; and even if the Framers WERE concerned about split loyalties, those were intended to be addressed on a "case by case basis" -- and it would not be reasonable to conclude that Obama would have British loyalty since the British Citizenship conferred on him at birth was only "due to his biological relationship to an estranged and unfamiliar father."
Team Obama concludes that the Framer's definition of "Natural Born Citizen" is the same as "Citizen" meaning all that is required is birth in the United States, even if neither parent is an American Citizen.
I'd say, if that's all they got, Leo's case is a slam dunk!
Posted by: Ted at December 7, 2008 08:27 PM
Ted, thank you, I am praying and fingers crossed too. I wish more people at some of the other blogs and around the internet would realize this has nothing to do with the fact he won and Republican's lost. This is about the Constitution and upholding it.
Thank you again Ted.
Posted by: Wild Thing at December 8, 2008 12:32 AM
