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September 24, 2007
Veterans Disarmament Act Will It Pass
Veterans Disarmament Act To Bar Vets From Owning Guns gun owners.org
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.
The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred -- for life -- from owning guns.
Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
CO-Sponsors:
Rep Bishop, Timothy H. [NY-1] - 6/11/2007
Rep Boucher, Rick [VA-9] - 6/11/2007
Rep Capps, Lois [CA-23] - 6/11/2007
Rep Castle, Michael N. [DE] - 6/11/2007
Rep Christensen, Donna M. [VI] - 6/13/2007
Rep Dingell, John D. [MI-15] - 6/11/2007
Rep Emanuel, Rahm [IL-5] - 6/11/2007
Rep Lowey, Nita M. [NY-18] - 6/11/2007
Rep Moore, Dennis [KS-3] - 6/11/2007
Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8] - 6/11/2007
Rep Pascrell, Bill, Jr. [NJ-8] - 6/11/2007
Rep Ross, Mike [AR-4] - 6/13/2007
Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. [IL-9] - 6/11/2007
Rep Shays, Christopher [CT-4] - 6/11/2007
Rep Sherman, Brad [CA-27] - 6/12/2007
Rep Smith, Lamar [TX-21] - 6/11/2007
Rep Wasserman Schultz, Debbie [FL-20] - 6/11/2007
some quotes about the bill...
from www.gunowners.org
“Through the years, we’ve had our differences with the National Rifle Association.... Today, we write in praise the NRA.” — The San Francisco Chronicle 06/15/07
“The Virginia Tech shootings were a horrific reminder of the gaps in U.S. gun laws. The [NRA] knew its usual opposition to any and every solution we brought forward would be unacceptable to the American public so it made this concession.” — Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence e-mail alert
“For the first time [in history, HR 2640], if enacted, would statutorily impose a lifetime gun ban on battle-scarred veterans.” — Military Order of the Purple Heart 06/18/07
“The NRA has told its members in the past that Carolyn McCarthy is one of the worst of the gun banners and now the NRA has crawled in bed with her!” — Virginia Citizens Defense League
“We’re hopeful that now that the NRA has come around to our point of view in terms of strengthening the Brady background checks, that now we can take the next step after this bill passes [to impose additional gun control].” — Paul Helmke of the Brady Campaign on CNN 06/13/07
Wild Thing's comment........
When I was 7 years old, my Dad would take me to the pasture, far away from the stables and set up a target practice shooting range. He taught me how to use a gun, to respect it and what it was capable of doing, to not be afraid of it, that it was and is the person with the gun not the gun that is dangerous. He taught me how important it is to have a gun or guns for protection always and.............................He told me that one day, it was very possible that in our country the government would knock on our door, or any door of a citizen and come for the guns in the household.
I pray this Veterans Disarmament Act does not pass.
Thank you John (VN 89-70) so much for the information below. VERY Importan to read this below everyone, thank you so much.
UPDATE:
The NRA has addressed this article and has actually cleared up some of the information in the article.
http://www.nraila.org//Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=246
Please click on the link from the NRA to read what they are saying about this bill.
Posted by Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 12:45 AM
Comments
The NRA and our 2nd Amendment are what America is all about. The NRA cost the Sorelosermen the 2000 election for Bush took 30 red states and Gore only 20 blue states. The Goreons lost Arkansas and Tennessee as well! This bill of treason is about pay back!! The infamous 'Floriduh' recount wouldn't have taken place if Arkansas OR Tenn. went to the Sorelosermen for Florida's 25 electoral votes wouldn't have mattered.
Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at September 24, 2007 05:18 AM
I've got to look into the NRA's involvement with this. This is the first I've heard of this act and I just renewed my NRA membership.
Posted by: BobF at September 24, 2007 07:18 AM
That shooter at Virginia Tech was a veteran ? The Illegals that killed the two in New jersey were Combat Veterans.
This whole thing is non-sense.
This is all about the UN world wide Gun confiscation program. It makes sense. The NAU, Bush's amnesty program for Illegals, the Super highway.
This is all part of the agenda. Time to keep your powder dry.
Posted by: Mark at September 24, 2007 08:02 AM
The NRA has addressed this article and has actually cleared up some of the information in the article. You have to read the whole thing, it can be found here http://www.nraila.org//Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=246
Posted by: John 5 (VN 69/70) at September 24, 2007 09:31 AM
John I am off to work but wanted to thank you for the update on this and the correction. Thank you so much.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 09:42 AM
I have packed and used firearms from the tiime I was 7 years old, they are the tools of self protection and freedom, not to say that I haven't experienced the negative side of the force and it's consequences, I have and in all but one instance it was off the battlefield.
For the arbitrary branding of veterans as unfit just pisses me off, there are many a policeman on the force with PTSD that pack everyday, with the left using the cudgel of PTSD to bar some or all of us from the freedoms granted by the second amendment they are perpetrating nothing more than the same crime that John F'ing Kerry perpetrated on us when he slandered the entire military, past and present, by labeling them as baby killers and worse.
"They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country." ` John F. Kerry
As a lifetime member of the NRA I am a voting member, I have gotten to the point of distrust with that organization and have to agonize over every vote at election time. It is hard for a ringer to infiltrate the board room but not impossible. This bill is a compromise to replace the Brady Bill, with NRA endorsement.
Remember that GHW Bush was an NRA member who savagely and publically resigned from the NRA to gain politically before the media and the left. I look at the scion with the same disdain.
Trust but verify? The Communists want us disarmed, we have the training ans skills to stop them...here!!!
Mark has the proper sense of wariness in the relentless quest by the Commies to disarm and dismantle our freedoms. Just another loss under the guise of public safety.
I'm of to the lake for a few days to get away from the BS, I'll be packin' too. Y'all have a great week.
Posted by: Jack at September 24, 2007 10:43 AM
I am far more worried about my health, wefare and freedom at the hands of globalist/socialist politicians than I am worried about a veteran who truely has PTSD( there are a lot of phonies riding this pony). Other than the Constitution, the best guarantee of American freedom is our right to gun ownership. That Second Amendment gun ownership right protects the rest of the Constitution.
Posted by: TomR at September 24, 2007 11:38 AM
I don't care what the NRA says. Any compromise is a compromise of our slowly disintegrating rights. Anybody making a deal with Charles 'Schmuckie' Schmuer is making a deal with the devil.
I am at the point to cancel my membersihp. I told them flat out, be upright an honest with me. 'Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining.'
We are in deep trouble as far as our rights are concerned. They want further background checks, they already have all your medical records. It will come down to one thing. Criminals will always have guns and we the honest law abiding citiZen will not.
And if you are stupid enough to sign up for the Military you won't qualify to own a gun either. I see this as a two edged sword, One it will keep good kids from joining the Service and, two they will automatically take away their second amendment rights. Once they do.
I am one of the nutso's who volunteered to go to Vietnam, FMF Westpac Ground Forces. I didn't have to go I was too short, but I felt an obligation to go, So I extended my time so I could, does that make me a 'nut case'. If it does then I can cancel my membership real quick. There are plenty of Gun organizations out there that are not trying to cut a deal with the leftist democrats.
Posted by: Mark at September 24, 2007 01:36 PM
Darth, it is a bill of treason and I am against it. I am against any bill that is negative in any way about guns.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 05:18 PM
Bob, this is all I could find on it.
For me I am against any kind of bill against guns.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 05:19 PM
Mark I agree it is all part of an agenda and an agenda I do not like one little bit.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 05:20 PM
Jack have a wonderful trip see you when you get back.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 05:21 PM
Tom I pray we always have those in place, it like you said is our protection to keep our guns.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 05:23 PM
Mark, I do not trust any of the organizations 100%. They have changed their minds too often and that scares me.
I agree with what you said about this, there is no way on earth this will be ok with most people that know how guns will keep us safe.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 05:28 PM
Buy guns and ammo now.
If possible, buy your guns from private owners who are looking to sell; no paper trail.
Don't brag about owing guns to your friends and co-workers. If you need to "show off" a gun, show off that formidable single shot 22 your grandfather handed down.
Posted by: BobF at September 24, 2007 10:39 PM
Looks like another list of TRAITORS!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Glenn M. Cassel, AMH1(AW), USN, Retired at September 24, 2007 11:26 PM
Bob thanks so much. I will do exactly as you said.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 11:32 PM
Glenn, it sure is, I am glad we can be aware of these people and what they are up to.
Posted by: Wild Thing at September 24, 2007 11:34 PM
What's the current firearm death rate in America?
Last time I looked it was about ten 9/11s a year.
Posted by: Nigel Greyman at September 25, 2007 07:51 PM
What's really sad is if the veteran disagrees with the VA he/she is labeled mentally ill. I'm an American but call home France now (and vet).
Posted by: August at October 1, 2007 11:49 AM
