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July 16, 2007
Haditha Case Seen As Losing Strength
Long post for a reason see my comment at the end.
Evidence against Marines called weak
San Diego Union-Tribune ....for complete article
July 12, 2007
For months, military officials expressed confidence in their case against several Camp Pendleton Marines accused of murdering 24 men, women and children in Haditha, Iraq.
But now, legal analysts say the prosecution's case is in jeopardy. They spoke after investigative officers recommended that two of the seven Haditha defendants should be spared courts-martial, largely because of weak evidence.
A third defendant was recommended for trial yesterday. "I think that unless they get a Marine eyewitness to roll over, they are going to have a hard time prosecuting the cases," said Jane Siegel, a former Marine judge and longtime defense lawyer in San Marcos. "The government has to know that as the investigation gets older and older, the case gets colder and colder and harder and harder to prove."
The final decision on courts-martial rests with Lt. Gen. James Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton. Last month, an investigative officer recommended that Capt. Randy Stone not be tried on charges of failing to investigate the Haditha killings. The officer issued his report shortly after Stone's pretrial hearing.
A report made public Tuesday by Lt. Col. Paul Ware, a career Marine prosecutor who strongly urged that all charges against Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt be dismissed.
Sharratt is one of three Marines accused of going on a rampage against the 24 Iraqis after a roadside bomb killed a fellow Marine on Nov. 19, 2005. In his report, Ware labeled allegations against Sharratt "unsupported" and several times called them "incredible."
He also suggested that some of the dead Iraqis were insurgents, as the defendants have maintained.
Ware, who presided over the pretrial hearing for Sharratt last month, said accounts by Iraqi witnesses seemed inconsistent with the forensic evidence available.
Such evidence showed that "each was shot facing forward, from a distance, and with a 9 mm pistol, which I find inconsistent with an execution or persons reacting to an execution," Ware wrote.
He noted that relatives of the dead Iraqis refused to allow the U.S. military to exhume the bodies to conduct autopsies. He also said the Iraqis had a powerful motive to lie, given that the Marine Corps would sometimes pay $2,500 to the family of an Iraqi civilian killed by U.S. forces.
Giving credence to the statements of these Iraqi witnesses would set "a dangerous precedent that, in my opinion, may encourage others to bear false witness against Marines as a tactic to erode public support of the Marine Corps mission in Iraq," Ware wrote. "Even more dangerous is the potential that a Marine may hesitate at the critical moment when facing the enemy."
Lawyers for other Haditha defendants hailed Ware's findings as a possible turning point in the case.
The investigative officer who oversaw the pretrial hearing for Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani, the highest-ranking Marine charged in the case, recommended that he be court-martialed for dereliction of duty and other similar charges. Chessani led the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, which included all the defendants.
Prosecutors have accused Chessani of failing to properly investigate the killings. His lawyers say he trusted his subordinates, who told him that the Iraqis died in a battle between U.S. forces and insurgents. The recommendation to court-martial Chessani "glorifies paper-pushing over fighting and has the unintended consequence of dampening the spirit of the most ferocious fighters on Earth," said Richard Thompson, an attorney for Chessani.
Wild Thing's comment.........
I know this is a long post and I apologize, sometimes I just have to put certain things together....... It all comes from my heart so I hope you understand.
Coverage of this is hard to find. The main newspaper covering this is the San Diego Herald Tribune as the San Diego press is covering the hearings. Can you imagine any American citizen being prosecuted for murder when prosecutors aren’t even sure who was murdered? The Hamdania Marines might as well be citizens of a Third World country for the all the justice they’ve received. And this isn’t even newsworthy outside of San Diego? This disgrace to the Corps and our country just keeps on rolling along, well below the radar.
Most of the evidence that has been sited is from the enemy. People that have been proven to aid the insurgents, liars, fakes more lies upon lies.
I support the Haditha Marines and impact of these cases on our Rules of Engagement, our will to continue the war, is already being felt. I daresay we could never have fought and persevered in WWII with the same PC mentality. The war against radical Islamicism is a war worth fighting. They represented me in this war, I will stand up for them.
They volunteer to put their lives on the line to save ours. The media and the Left has gone over and above to portray them as the “bad guys” since the war started.
Murtha’s “cold blooded murder” comment hit a raw nerve with me and the inconsistencies just didn’t add up. The more I read and heard, the madder I got. The rush to judgment and the deliberate failure by many to look at the facts
only made me madder.
Esprit de Corps” and “Semper Fidelis”. Never turn your back on those who taught you what duty, honor and courage were all about.
I was reading a speech by Patton and even though he was Army and not a Marine his speech is awesome and has a lot of things in it that pertain to what is happening with these Marines as well as those in our government and citizens not wanting to fight the terrorists but have stupid sit downs and talk with them which is a totally insane idea. So I am putting Patton's speech here for you to read. He had me cheering and laughing as well.
God bless our past warriors, Patton and Chesty and others like them that knew how to lead the hearts of men and spoke the truth always.
General Patton arose and strode swiftly to the microphone. The men snapped to their feet and stood silently. Patton surveyed the sea of brown with a grim look. "Be seated", he said. The words were not a request, but a command. The General's voice rose high and clear.
"Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American."
The General paused and looked over the crowd.
"You are not all going to die," he said slowly. "Only two percent of you right here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Death, in time, comes to all men. Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave men or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some, it takes an hour. For some, it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood. Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base. Americans pride themselves on being He Men and they ARE He Men. Remember that the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so. They are not supermen."
"All through your Army careers, you men have bitched about what you call "chicken shit drilling". That, like everything else in this Army, has a definite purpose. That purpose is alertness. Alertness must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who's not always on his toes. You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for what's to come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay alive. If you're not alert, sometime, a German son-of-an-asshole-bitch is going to sneak up behind you and beat you to death with a sockful of shit!"
The men roared in agreement.
Patton's grim expression did not change.
"There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily", he roared into the microphone, "All because one man went to sleep on the job".
He paused and the men grew silent.
"But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did".
The General clutched the microphone tightly, his jaw out-thrust, and he continued.
"An Army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is pure horse shit. The bilious bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting under fire than they know about fucking!"
The men slapped their legs and rolled in glee. This was Patton as the men had imagined him to be, and in rare form, too. He hadn't let them down. He was all that he was cracked up to be, and more. He had IT!
"We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world".
Patton bellowed. He lowered his head and shook it pensively. Suddenly he snapped erect, faced the men belligerently and thundered.
"Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do".
The men clapped and howled delightedly. There would be many a barracks tale about the "Old Man's" choice phrases. They would become part and parcel of Third Army's history and they would become the bible of their slang.
"My men don't surrender", Patton continued, "I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bull shit either. The kind of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Luger against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand, and busted the hell out of the Kraut with his helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before they knew what the hell was coming off. And, all of that time, this man had a bullet through a lung. There was a real man!"
Patton stopped and the crowd waited. He continued more quietly.
"All of the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every single man in this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain. What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn't like the whine of those shells overhead, turned yellow, and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could say, "Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands". But, what if every man thought that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like? No, Goddamnit, Americans don't think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the 'G.I. Shits'."
Patton paused, took a deep breath, and continued.
"Each man must not think only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men."
"One of the bravest men that I ever saw was a fellow on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious fire fight in Tunisia. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time like that. He answered, "Fixing the wire, Sir". I asked, "Isn't that a little unhealthy right about now?" He answered, "Yes Sir, but the Goddamned wire has to be fixed". I asked, "Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?" And he answered, "No, Sir, but you sure as hell do!"
"Now, there was a real man. A real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no matter how great the odds. And you should have seen those trucks on the rode to Tunisia. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting all around them all of the time. We got through on good old American guts. Many of those men drove for over forty consecutive hours. These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it, and in one hell of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost. All of the links in the chain pulled together and the chain became unbreakable."
The General paused and stared challengingly over the silent ocean of men. One could have heard a pin drop anywhere on that vast hillside. The only sound was the stirring of the breeze in the leaves of the bordering trees and the busy chirping of the birds in the branches of the trees at the General's left.
"Don't forget," Patton barked, "you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the Goddamned Germans. Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Third Army again and that son-of-a-fucking-bitch Patton'."
"We want to get the hell over there", Patton continued, "The quicker we clean up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the Goddamned Marines get all of the credit."
The men roared approval and cheered delightedly. This statement had real significance behind it. Much more than met the eye and the men instinctively sensed the fact. They knew that they themselves were going to play a very great part in the making of world history. They were being told as much right now. Deep sincerity and seriousness lay behind the General's colorful words. The men knew and understood it. They loved the way he put it, too, as only he could.
Patton continued quietly.
"Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin", he yelled, "I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"
"When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!"
"I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my position." We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!"
"From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that."
The General paused. His eagle like eyes swept over the hillside. He said with pride.
"There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, "Well, your Granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana." No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, "Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"
Posted by Wild Thing at July 16, 2007 12:47 AM
Comments
It's the 'PC' Rules of Engagement that result in getting our Devil Dogs killed! The islamomaniacs use our Rules of Non-Engagement to their murderous jihad advantages... and the liberal media exploit this fact in Al-Jazeera fashion! Vietnam Pentagonners used Rules of Engagement and Nixon used B-52's over Hanoi in Operation Linebacker I & II to finally END that war!
Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at July 16, 2007 03:03 AM
PS: Our marines have to fight by the rules... and islamomaniacs do not? Our soldiers have to fight by the rules... and islamofascist insurgents do not? - The Alpha is now the Omega, eh? Pardon my infidel ass while I pause for a moment to vomit!
Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at July 16, 2007 05:43 AM
"For months, military officials expressed confidence in their case against several Camp Pendleton Marines accused of murdering 24 men, women and children in Haditha, Iraq".
That statement above, the first sentence in your post, is what saddens me the most. Military officials, OUR military officials, wanting to take these Marines down. No wonder recruitment is down. Young men and women aren't too stupid to realise they're military officials just around the corner with the hangman's noose, waiting for them to mess up.
Posted by: BobF at July 16, 2007 09:11 AM
"We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men."
General, your men let you down on this one. The cowards are running ramped in American. They're now called Democrats and Liberals.
Posted by: BobF at July 16, 2007 09:12 AM
It is a crime itself that Marine officials, some congressman, JAG, the media and anti-war activists went after these Haditha Marines with such zest. Seeing pictures of these Marines in shackles really pissed me off.
I hope all charges are completely dropped. Then I would like to see those Marine officials and others punished. It won't ever happen of course.
There are several other military trials like this one waiting. We have to amend the rules of engagement to fit the war. We cannot punish our combat troops for fighting the way they have to.
Posted by: TomR at July 16, 2007 11:41 AM
The thing that pissed me off is the one important right that these Marines and Soldiers are fighting for is the right of the presumption of innocence, until proven guilty.
Dirtbag Murtha, and the mainstream media had these guys guilty before the ink was even dry.
In the liberal mind and the main stream media White Rich boys accused of rape and the Military are always guilty.
Funny though, I heard today on Rush, that the Majority of the KKK after the Civil War were democrats, coincidence, I think not.
Posted by: Mark at July 16, 2007 04:10 PM
Darth, pardon mine too my friend.
Posted by: Wild Thing at July 16, 2007 11:07 PM
Bob, I have been reading about them since this all happened. It makes me sick to my stomach how they are trying so hard to make an example of these brave men. But so far little by little the lies of those accusing these soldiers are proven to be nothing but lies. I hope they are all cleared in the end.
Posted by: Wild Thing at July 16, 2007 11:09 PM
Bob............."The cowards are running ramped in American. They're now called Democrats and Liberals. ".....that is exactly what they are called.
Posted by: Wild Thing at July 16, 2007 11:10 PM
Tom I agree with what you said so much. I pray that is what happens.
Posted by: Wild Thing at July 16, 2007 11:12 PM
Mark wow that is something, thanks for sharing that. I missed Rush's show today and seldom do.
That is really interesting to me.
And yes Murtha and the media put the stamp on these guys as guilty from day one. grrrrrrrrr
Posted by: Wild Thing at July 16, 2007 11:16 PM
