Theodore's World

Here's a thought. We've been in Korea for 50 years. Despite MacArthur's contention that "Korea isn't worth defending", we did and we stayed. We've spent billions and billions of dollars, probably trillions in the last fifty years on the Korean peninsula. We've probably rotated several hundred thousand troops through there.

Much has changed in 50 years. Our policy on N. Korea hasn't. Nor has it worked. It could be argued that we have been successful 'containing the red menace' and to that end, yes we've succeeded. We've also allowed S. Korea to prosper. But today we're in a stalemate because we're playing a game who's rules should have been written to allow for an eventual winner, but weren't.

I think we have 3 options.

1. Go to war unilaterally with N. Korea. The chances of going to the UN to garner support for help with military action would be futile.

2. Plan on spending another 50 years of troop rotations and check writing to 'contain the red menace'.

or 3., and this is where you may think I'm nuts,.....Cut a deal with China. Offer China stewardship of N. Korea. They can have it.In return for a fairer free trade policy. We will pull ALL of our troops off the peninsula after we JOINTLY remove the regime that has crippled that country.

Yes, I'm saying form a military alliance with the chinese to remove Kim Jong IL.

There would never be a better time to do this than now. Obviously, Kim Jong Il's 'Nuke ' program is inneffective. His missile systems are unreliable. His people are starving. His infrastucture hasn't progressed since the start of the Korean war, and the Red Chinese aren't threatening to overrun the South. The last part is important.

China doesn't want N. Korea to have Nukes. Neither do we. Nor does Japan, Australia , S. Korea and a host of other nations. There are only two nations that I can see that are (A), capable of disarming them, and (B)have a legitimate vested interest in doing so. Us and China.

N. Korea is basically wedged for all intents and purposes between the US Army and The Chinese. The weapons we possess today certainly are capable of aniahlating any enemy if we choose to wield them. The technological advances in warfare we have made would make a 'second Korean war' look like cowboys and indians, if we screw the whole bullshit 'collateral damage' concept and fight it as a war. If we can't disarm this tin horn thug now after 50 years of 'containment' and isolation, when will we. AFTER he dials in his Nuke program? I don't think so.

So, with China, blockade N. Korea. Air, Sea, train, road, carrier pidgeon. Nothing in, nothing out, not even cat food. Offer Kim Jong IL a chance to remain alive and simply step aside beause if he doesn't the Chinese will be taking over with our blessing.

What would his options be? None, nada, his position would be hopeless. What would he do? Start a shooting war? Against the US AND China? Ha!! That would last a day.

So the Chinese now have N. Korea. So what!!!!! Conditions for the people of N. Korea certainly would improve. The Chinese aren't going to take over the south. The chinese wouldn't want a shooting war with the US. Their economy is too dependant on ours. Our troops could come home or be redeployed to reinforce the war in the mid east.

We could still 'defend' S. Korea the same way we defend most of our allies. With the promise that we will be there for them should the need arise. Fifty years should have proven that to them, don't you think? So the Chinese really gain no military advantageover us by this arrangement. They can attack us just fine from where they are right now should they choose to do so.

The Chinese would be eliminating a threat to them and their neighbors. They would also be able to open an overland route to trade with the south Koreans.

Now, here's the side bonus. It would piss off the Russians and show Mr. Gorbechav that his statement the other day about the US missing a chance to do more good in the world may have been a little premature. Yes, I said Gorbechav, not Putin. Putin would be brought down a peg or two.

Mr. Ahmadinejad would be choking on his tabuolie. It certainly would send a much clearer message to him than any UN resolution.

And it solves the free trade issue with china.

Ok, let me have it, tell me I'm nuts and why this won't work.

Billy

Withdraw from N. Korea.

I am tired of spending billion$ on endless and non-productive forays. North Korea is at the top of the list. South Korea needs to protect themselves. Currently they are able to play a soft dance with the north because the US holds the hammer. Well we need to let go of this hammer. South Korea is very capable of deciding their own fate. If they want to merge with the north, fine. If they don't that's fine too. BUT IT IS THEIR PROBLEM. We are not able to drain our resources endlessly, and for a situation that has been intractable for 50 years. China doesn't want this burden either, but they need to weigh in on this instead of us being the heavy hand in the region. We have been a surrogate army and police force on too many places on the planet. Its time for the regional community of nations to step up and deal with their rogue states. 50+ years on the DMZ is too long. This needs to get resolved now, one way or the other.

I wish there had been some dog shit on the floor and the NK ambassador had stepped in it. I can see him walking out trying to shake it off his foot. Hell the mental image has got me cracking up.

I like Billy's idea. The main problem I see is that once Kim is removed, the two Koreas will want to reunite and I don't know if China would agree to that. China might not want the capitalistic power and probable US ally a united Korea would be on her border. There are also indications Vietnam is moving toward Capitalism and shares a border and an animosity with China.

I also think that if we try to work any kind of a deal with China, she will demand our abandonment of Taiwan.

China is almost at war with several Asian nations, incl. Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam over the Spratley Island oil fields. China needs oil to fuel her growing( and Capitalistic tending) economy and does not need for America to have any more allies in the region, or the thorn of N. Korea removed.

Interesting near future developing in Asia. Not to mention the germ of Islam in several Asian nations

TomR,

The way I see it, China has nothing to lose and everything to gain by removing Kim Jong Il. I don't understand the reasons why China would be opposed to a reunified Korea, especially if they could be percieved as the country that fostered it. It sure would raise their stock in the international community and temper the human rights criticisms (rightly so)that are being leveled against them.

If they are uncomfortable with a unified Korea, fine! Let em have it. Let THEM control the North. It has to be better than what currently exists in the North now. The best way for China to stop worrying about the US having more allies in the region is to become one. Then, what would be there to fear?

I have a friend who flies for a major carrier who is currently on thr Pacific routes. She is in and out of China weekly. Shanghai and Beijing are becomming bustling centers of Chinese capitalism. She also flies into Vietnam and says that they too are thriving. The march of Capitalism can't be stopped, except by force, or some perverted allegience to a gutter religion.

I would think China, especially given what is taking place in their largest cities would want to entertain the idea of allowing Korea to help fill it's coffers instead of draing them for a change.

You're right about Taiwan. China has been adamant about not allowing the Taiwanese independence. That issue could also be 'tied' to any agreement we would make with the Chinese over N. Korea. It could be a contingency that if we allow the Chinese to control the North, they should consoder granting Taiwan autonomy. That is where this might get sticky. China's profound reservations regarding Taiwan certainly won't change overnight. But maybe, just maybe, changing the mindset from confrontation to cooperation may in time, have a positive effect. (Although in retrospect that never worked in either of my marriages)

I don't know enough about the Sprately Island oil fields to comment on that. Frankly I've never heard the subject being broached. But, I do know something about sales, and that is what we need to do with China. We have to sell them the sizzle of N. Korea being a financial and political asset.

Yes, For the low price of removing Kim Jong Il, you get the complete withdrawl of a US forces from the Korean peninsula, but that's not all,if you act now, you will be viewed by the world community as being a true leader on the world stage, recieve sveral new deep water ports, increase your GNP, and your name will be entered into the next drawing for the coveted Nobel Peace Prize. Operators are standing by.

Billy

The time to have taken care of the Korean problem occurred under Harry Truman's watch, he chose the U.N. partition to solve the problem. It's time the U.N. put forth the effort to solve their longstanding problem. Of the five permanent members on the U.N. security council only one has adamantly sought to curb North Korea, the rest have fought the initiative. Now that the whole world is threatened the rest want the United States to step into the breach and stop them. China and Russia have long agitated this condition as a proxy war against the United States along with the liberal weasels that blame the U.S. for current conditions. This Art Imitates Real Life article illustrates the left's response to censure the truth. The ROK has long demonstrated against the U.S. presence there, let them divert their disdain toward the hand that protects them and let them pick up the cudgel of self defense or fall.

Billy good one.

I would love us to withdraw from there for one thing. Just for starters, then do the rest of the list too.

daedalo I agree it sure does need to get resolved asap. Too many talks, too much time of being patient does not seem to help, just like with Iran the same thing.

Jack Hamilton............LMAO

I LOVE the visual of that in my mind. Hahahahaha

That would have been so great! heh heh

Tom I bet you are right about what China would want regarding Taiwan.

Jack thank you for the link.

Daedalo is right, I think. Our presence in South Korea, 30,000 of us, is a tripwire. Any attack on the South by the North would end in the deaths of most of these 30,000, and guarantee an American response. Do we need this? No.

Unless I'm mistaken, South Korea has roughly 750,000 well-armed and provisioned soldiers. If they're anything like the ROK's I knew in VN, they're fully capable of resisting a northern land invasion.

Our 30,000 men provide another service, which is guarantee China that the South will not go nuclear, and we therefore stabilize the Peninsula. This is BS. No more favors to Beijing...screw it...no more favors to PEKING.

Daedalo's absolutely right. Enough is enough. Bring these men and women home, and force the South to face its problems with the North.

Rhod I agree, it is BS. Enough is enough like you said. I too want to see them take care of this themselves.

Daedalo,

How?

Billy

I don't know enough about the logistics on a withdrawal plan. Probably would need to be rolled out with the neighbor states. Of course Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan will go bonkers.